howdy JohnBoy,

So maybe that’s why sailors call it “thousand mile an hour tape!”. The idea is you stick it on some slow sailboat and transform it into some sort of lean and mean racing beast.

We do often use it for spot repairs.

One of the hardest problems to design a boat for is torsion or twist (same with aircraft – flutter). The things that make a big contribution are
1/ limiting movement along seams of the hull
2/ Built in enclosed areas (very effective)
3/ knees that locate the angles of one part panel against another.

I think it would be quite possible to build a short term boat using the aluminium tape alone for a short period, but would worry that the movement and huge leverages involved at the chine would rupture the tape. Also the chafe and wear and tear might be a problem.

If you think about it the leverage at the chine is something like the width of the side panel divided by the size of the gap.
Panel – a foot wide roughly
Gap – plywood thickness approx – 1/4″
so looking at a mechanical advantage opening up the join of around 48:1.

I think it would be interesting to see if someone could make a reasonably long lived success of a duct tape only join in a canoe hull. If it worked I would be happy to eat my, hopefully educated, guesses above.

But the aluminium duct tape will continue to be one of the first things I pack to deal with minor and even surprisingly large holes and cracks.

Cheers!

MIK

I love the idea of the whole adventure but alas for me it’s not to be.

Something you might consider, if drying glue becomes a problem, is aluminum duct tape on the outside of the seams. In a past life, I worked on military airplanes and we used it expedient bullet hole repairs.

I know from person experience that it’s good for at least 300+ knots. For quick construction/repairs just tape it on and burnish it well to seat and it’ll hold for quite a long time.
Fair winds,
John Boy

Tell me when you know Paul.

MIK

The Loire trip will be in 2011, so I have some time to see if the finances are possible.

Hi Brian,

Thanks very much for your email!

Hope I didn’t come over too strong on the Duckworks forum. I guess part is me being a bit protective of the original concept, but also I thought long and hard over several years before deciding that the chinelogless construction was the way to go.

I do like using chinelogs in my designs, but I do think they add quite a bit of labour. But the advantage is the assurance of fairness of the chine. As a really cheap, basic boat the quick canoe can break my normal rules to get the building time down.

I do worry a bit that on a low power boat like a canoe the external logs add a fair bit of drag – but I do have to admit that I don’t really have any solid data that they do either.

On the other side the Quick canoes can go together really quick. We have 4.5 hours for one without seats, 5.5 hours for one through to completion (incl painting) and another that was about in the mid 5s as well but he didn’t really keep a good record.

There have been others where people seemed to take several weeks to get them together, but it looks like you will have a really talented team of people there. They will not take weeks to do anything!

You can set up the polyester to kick off quick, but too quick and it doesn’t stick to the timber very well. That is its biggest flaw that even at its best it doesn’t bond directly to wood like epoxy does – a thinned first coat before the tape goes down can help – unlike epoxy where you never need to thin as it bonds directly to the cellulose molecules.

However there have been many successful boats built with glass tape over many years. the normal reason I dissuade people from considering it a prime method is that they do tend to start leaking after a few years of use. Hardly a problem with the Loire.

I would tend to go to paint to do the bottom etc. The polyester doesn’t stick really well to wood and is also thick and brittle. I think paint is a much more reliable choice.

Generally my attitude to changing things on my plans is that I will will try and push people toward my suggested methods, because there are reasons for them, I will dissuade people from anything that (as Chuck would say) is STOOPID, but for things I don’t quite agree with but can’t see the harm, like external chine logs or sika or whatever – then plaudits and self blame for the builder if they don’t work.

So I won’t stop anyone or gripe of ppl want to try chine logs.

Actually the ideal might be to try some boats one way and others the other and see how the building goes and the use.

Anyway … shoot any questions my way that you like.

There are going to be two or three little revisions of the Quick canoe in future.
1/ move the seats down about 50mm.
2/ either swap the gunwale and inwale so the 3/4sq (19mm sq) goes inside the hull – it gives a bit more glue surface for the centre spreader. Alternatively gunwale and inwale could be 3/4sq – might make more sense for standardisation of timber.
3/ I think the skegs are a bit too big, I would halve their height before the keel batten goes on. Just gives a bit more manoeuvrability.

Now that is a good french word!

Best wishes
Michael

So I had a look at your quick canoe and got some input from Chuck, and I think your boat would be a good way to go.

It could be done with the duct tape/polyester resin like the prototype, or also an exterior chine log/sikaflex and screws build.

One thing that occurred to me was that if one thinks of cutting and buttblocking in advance that the curves in your canoe are gentle enough to glue on the chine logs in advance and then paint the entire exterior of the boat a day or two before assembly – I have been using a garage floor paint that is supposed to allow a second coat 4 hours after the first and then have a car parked on it the next day, and I have found that that is pretty much the case in terms of curing time.

On the other hand, your point about tape and glue and easy and quick is well taken. I don’t have any experience with polyester resin but as I understand it you can mix it to kick pretty quickly and it can be painted fairly soon thereafter. Would it be useful to put a coat or two of resin on the bottom of the boat to waterproof it a bit like you do with epoxy?

So anyway, what are your thoughts on the whole deal?

Cheers, Brian